STEVEOUTDOORREC

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Cell towers must have battery back-up says FCC. Companies say No

Seeded on Sun Mar 9, 2008 10:31 AM EDT

Article Source: The Philadelphia Inquirer

technology, cell-phone, fcc, federal-communications-commission, battery-backup

Seeded by steveoutdoorrec

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When Hurricane Katrina assaulted the Gulf Coast in 2005, wind and flooding knocked out hundreds of cell towers and cell sites, silencing wireless communication just when victims and emergency crews needed them.
To avoid similar debacles, the Federal Communications Commission wants most cell transmitter sites in the United States to have at least eight hours of backup battery power in the event main electrical power fails, one of several moves regulators say would make the nation's communication system stronger and more reliable.

Two and a half years after Katrina and eight months after the FCC's regulations were released, the two sides are still wrestling with the issue.

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Public Discussion (34)

steveoutdoorrec

My cell phone is my only phone. I manage a park for five months and move to an apartment for the winter. It makes no sense to get a land line. So I can see where in an emergency this would make sense.

There is also a cell tower on some of my property in the country where adding back-up power would be no problem. But the phone companies are correct that in metropolitian areas there may be no place in a building under current leases to put such a system in.

What do you think? How should this be handled?

1 vote

#1 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 10:35 AM EDT

ShaunV

It seems like it would be a good idea to cover emergencies. A lot of people no longer have a land line.

The mentioned costs do seem high though.

1 vote

#1.1 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 12:27 PM EDT

steveoutdoorrec

I'm sure that the costs the phone companies use are based on the highest bidder for the worst case senerio.

For the rural towers a simple backup genertor, like almost everyone up here in the mountain has at home, would work. They automatically run once a month to keep things lubricated and then turn on when the power is lost. Maintainence is changing oil and filling a propane tank. But the sheer number of towers in the country would make it very expensive to do.

The true cost to many would be what is the price to pay for saving lives in an emergency? I'd pay a small additional fee but for how long I'm not sure.

1 vote

#1.2 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 12:39 PM EDT

Adam Kemp

Regardless of the issue of power, it's a good idea to have a phone plugged in to a land line even if you're not paying for it. In the case of an emergency those phones can still be used at least to call 911, and it would be more productive if the FCC required that land lines become free and open in these emergencies. In fact, it would make more sense because these companies are actually granted monopoly status so it's reasonable for the government to make such demands.

1 vote

#1.3 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 1:13 PM EDT

Jay Butler

I don't think those costs are out of line at all, but I have no idea how much power the cell sites use. Battery backup systems can be expensive especially for higher power draws. These batteries only have a limited lifespan (3-5 years).

2 votes

#1.4 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 1:18 PM EDT

steveoutdoorrec

Up here in the Adirondack mountains there was a massive ice storm in 1998 that knocked out power and phone lines for weeks. Same thing in Rochester the year before. The difference is that in Rochester there was cell service for those that had it. In the mountains we have very spotty cell coverage on good days and people have lost their lives because there was no way to call for help.

During the summer I live/work 2 miles off the highway back in the woods and am lucky to have cell service. No way to even consider a land line. We use an amplifier and antenna set up to boost the signal but get pretty good coverage anyway.

Not sure about phones on non-working lines being used to call 911. You may be confusing that with the regulations for cell phones

In the United States, the FCC requires networks to route every mobile-phone 911 call to an emergency service call center, including phones that have never had service, or whose service has lapsed.

I can't find anything on land lines working on a line that has no paid service.

1 vote

#1.5 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 2:09 PM EDT

Adam Kemp

Not sure about phones on non-working lines being used to call 911. You may be confusing that with the regulations for cell phones

No, I'm not. I am pretty sure (though I haven't tried to prove it) that if you have a physical land line without paying for service, you can still hook up a phone to that line and call 911. They should not physically disconnect you from the network. If I'm wrong then I would argue that they should be required to do this. The government gave them a monopoly, and they should be required to provide necessary services in exchange.

#1.6 - Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:40 AM EDT

steveoutdoorrec

I still don't believe you can use a non connected land line to call 911.

I have been searching the FCC database to see if I can find anything about this issue without success. Lots about how cell phones will call 911 even if they are not in service but nothing about landlines. Will keep looking but if you find anything please let me know.

#1.7 - Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:39 PM EDT

Adam Kemp

It may not be a law, but from my Google searches it seems that it's true at least some of the time.

1 vote

#1.8 - Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:04 PM EDT

steveoutdoorrec

It may not be a law, but from my Google searches it seems that it's true at least some of the time.

Please give me a link. All my google searches come up with links about cell phones.

#1.9 - Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:33 PM EDT

Adam Kemp

I googled for "land line" 911 "no service", which found a lot of anecdotal evidence. I also found the Wikipedia article on 911, which said this:

In the U.S., FCC rules require every telephone that can physically access the network to be able to dial 911, regardless of any reason that normal service may have been disconnected (including non-payment). On wired (land line) phones, this usually is accomplished by a "soft" dial tone, which sounds normal, but will only allow emergency calls. Often, an unused and unpublished phone number will be issued to the line so that it will work properly.

Still no official word from the FCC website.

I also found this article, which shows clearly that at least in some cases this is true (but not that it's a rule):

...Officers say anytime you call 9-1-1 in Belmont County - if there is a dial-tone or not - you're going to get an operator.

"Although she had a disconnected phone, as long as your phone is hooked up into a phone line, you can still pick up the phone and dial 911 and ring into our system," said Sergeant Tom DeVaul.

1 vote

#1.10 - Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:47 PM EDT

steveoutdoorrec

I bow before your superior google skills. :-)
Nice finds.

You would think that it would be more widely known that in case of emergency any phone would do. It makes no difference at the park because we don't have any wires coming in. The building are at least 2 miles off the road and it would take more then a year's budget to run them. So it's cell or satellite as the only options.

On a personal note we've been with out cell service for 24 hours due to an ice storm. Not sure what happened to the closest tower but we just got service back. I'm sure the ice did some damage to the land lines too but as I don't have one no way to tell.

#1.11 - Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:26 PM EDT

Adam Kemp

I'm not convinced any more that it's an FCC rule, though. I think maybe it's just a law in some states or something. There are apparently still places where there's no 911 coverage at all, though.

#1.12 - Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:15 PM EDT

steveoutdoorrec

There are apparently still places where there's no 911 coverage at all, though

I live in one.

The counties up here are poor and have been working on getting 911 set up. Just last year the town my park is in got around to putting up road signs on all the little private roads. When one of my staff got cut with a chainsaw one of the others called 911 on his cell. He was connected to a town over 50 miles away and had to try and explain where he was. The local rescue is now on speed dial.

1 vote

#1.13 - Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:23 PM EDT

Johnny Yuma

It would seem to be a good business decision to install backup power. Being able to use "dependable communications" as a selling point against your competitors.

1 vote

#2 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 12:05 PM EDT

Jay Butler

Yes, but at what cost? UPS systems are very costly to install and maintain. That cost has to be phenomenal to install a UPS at every cell tower site even in just a single metropolitan area.

Would you be likely to choose a cell plan that cost an additional $5-$10 per month for that level of dependability?

Part of my job is managing some computer systems at a disaster recovery site. Inevitably, every business person is going to say that all of their systems are business critical. But, once they understand the costs associated with having systems that can be brought online within about 4 hours of a disaster, they change their minds. In the end, because of the huge costs involved, we are left with just the essentials.

Fault tolerance is expensive. How much expense are you willing to put up with every month in order to have uninterrupted service?

5 votes

#2.1 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 12:16 PM EDT

Johnny Yuma

Jay Butler

Would you be likely to choose a cell plan that cost an additional $5-$10 per month for that level of dependability?

Today,right now?

I'd say no.

ask me again after I've been cut off from communications for awhile due to a power outage,I'd probably pay that much and more.

#2.2 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 1:56 PM EDT

Jay Butler

Well, is that not the question?

In order to build such a safety net, it will take a large initial investment and a significant maintenance cost. Those are costs that the cellular companies would have to start paying now.

Saying that you might consider paying more after an outage is like wanting to buy car insurance after an accident. A bit too late.

4 votes

#2.3 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 2:11 PM EDT

steveoutdoorrec

Jay; the cost of battery backup systems would be high but there are other alternatives. I've mentioned above the idea of using backup generators for rural locations. A possiblity for urban towers might be an aluminium/water fuel cell. This is an old article on a small unit but I've seen some that are made to power an entire hospital in an emergency. Little or no maintenance needed.

1 vote

#2.4 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 2:15 PM EDT

More Than Happy

It would seem to be a good business decision to install backup power.

The problem is... who'd be the first supplier to make that venture? The pioneer would have to raise their prices in order to cover the cost of such a system, leaving them in a position to be under-cut by the competition. Your average group of consumers might appreciate the cost, but then again they might not.

1 vote

#2.5 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 2:18 PM EDT

steveoutdoorrec

One thing I learned in my craft show days is that Americans want things that cost less no matter the quality. Me, I buy the best I can afford and when it comes to safety a few bucks more is an investment that might pay off. Sort of like a membership in AAA. Hope I never have to call them but when I do it will be worth every penny.

1 vote

#2.6 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 2:29 PM EDT

luckydog

With all the money we spend on crap in this country it seems like a few bucks for reliable communications in a disaster is a no brainer. Probably cost less than the bling many users dress their phones in. Batteries will a solar panel to keep them topped off are probably far less of an investment that buying another company and yet the communications companies seem to do that with great regularity.

2 votes

#2.7 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 2:45 PM EDT

Johnny Yuma

Jay Butler

Well, is that not the question?

In order to build such a safety net, it will take a large initial investment and a significant maintenance cost. Those are costs that the cellular companies would have to start paying now.

Saying that you might consider paying more after an outage is like wanting to buy car insurance after an accident. A bit too late.

Insurance is an excellent comparison.

Verizon seems to have done it and stay competitive.

from the article:
Not all carriers have joined the fight. Verizon Wireless is not a party to the appeal and has a history of installing backup generators and batteries to its cell sites, most famously during a 2003 blackout that kept much of the Northeast in the dark for hours, but not Verizon customers.

2 votes

#2.8 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 3:15 PM EDT

Jay Butler

Verizon seems to have done it and stay competitive.

That is an excellent example of how the free market deals with the situation. If Verizon finds that it can attract and keep customers by offering this kind of reliability, other carriers will either have to follow their lead and install battery backups or they will have to compete on price.

If continuous availability is important to customers, there is already another option available -- satellite phones. Globalstar offers an emergency plan for $360 per year. Not a bad option if you absolutely have to have phone service 24x7.

3 votes

#2.9 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 3:44 PM EDT

Jay Butler

Sort of like a membership in AAA.

Only if a government agency mandated membership in AAA for all drivers.

3 votes

#2.10 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 3:46 PM EDT

steveoutdoorrec

Globalstar had a service plan that was $999 for three years with unlimited minutes. They may still have it. The only reason we didn't switch over is Verizon wouldn't let us port the exisiting phone number for the park and with over 10,000 brochures out there we just couldn't do it.

They do have an antenna unit that can be mounted on the roof and will handle 3 phones being plugged into it. Can't do data or faxes but for just a phone line it's cheaper then a cell phone. But not a land line. For a hand-held unit you have to go outside so it can "see" the sky.

I ran the numbers and for my wife and I to switch over to sattelite phones would save us over a thousand dollars with one of their other plans over 4 years but there's that having to step outside that just won't work for us.

2 votes

#2.11 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 4:07 PM EDT

Johnny Yuma

Jay Butler

That is an excellent example of how the free market deals with the situation. If Verizon finds that it can attract and keep customers by offering this kind of reliability, other carriers will either have to follow their lead and install battery backups or they will have to compete on price.

Agreed,which is the point I was trying to make in my first post.

I don't think Federal mandate would be the best thing in the long run. It would most likely just stifle innovation and progress.

1 vote

#3 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 4:05 PM EDT

luckydog

Or cause the cellphone companies to put battery backups in their cell towers. Want innovation? Fine them for the number of minutes they are not available do to a power outage and make them pay their customers for that time, then you would see innovation.

1 vote

#3.1 - Sun Mar 9, 2008 8:46 PM EDT

luckydog

Cellphone companies use the public airwaves. That bandwidth is a limited resource and should be managed for the public good. If the cellphone companies are not interested in providing a basic reliable service during power failures then they should lose the use of that bandwidth. Disasters are not isolated instances that never occur but happen with great regularity and we need to prepare for them. One of the best things you can do is have good communications and right now cellphones are the best answer (if they work).

1 vote

#3.2 - Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:42 PM EDT

Jay Butler

Doesn't the FCC sell/license the use of those airwaves? The FCC would have set these conditions during the auction. Those conditions would have used in determining the value of the spectrum.

The conditions of sale cannot be changed after the cash is in the till.

2 votes

#3.3 - Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:08 PM EDT

steveoutdoorrec

The conditions of sale cannot be changed after the cash is in the till.

I'm sure that is part of the phone company's argument.

As I read the comments I like the idea of mounting solar cells on the towers or the roofs of the accompanying buildings to keep the back up batteries charged. The cost to do all the cell towers is the major concern. Should the government (us) pay for this upgrade?

#3.4 - Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:30 PM EDT

luckydog

Doesn't the FCC sell/license the use of those airwaves? The FCC would have set these conditions during the auction. Those conditions would have used in determining the value of the spectrum.

The conditions of sale cannot be changed after the cash is in the till.

Sure they can. The airwaves are not sold but rented. They have no right to them in perpetuity. There are all kinds of taxes that everybody and his brother adds to you phone bill, so simply modifying these taxes would pay for the upgrade.

How many calls go through a single cell tower in a day. Thousands? What kind of income does that one tower generate for the cell phone company? I am sure there are equipment suppliers that would provide backup systems for thousands of towers and using economy of scale I don't think it would be that much compared to the lives and property that could be saved.

When you go to call that ambulance or first responder in an emergency and you can't get through because a tower is not working, what is that service worth to you then? Multiply that by hundreds and thousands nationwide during all kinds of emergencies. Having worked for a cellphone company during and after hurricane Charlie I know how distressed people were to be without their cell service.

1 vote

#3.5 - Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:31 PM EDT

Jay Butler

Leases are contracts. By requiring battery backup and by adding taxes, you are changing the terms of the contract. You cannot simply mandate that battery backup occur without providing for some way for the cell companies to recoup the cost of the purchase, installation and maintenance of such a system. My point was that they bid on the spectrum under certain terms. Mandating additional costs changes that equation.

Once the leases expire, the FCC could set whatever terms they choose. And, I am sure that the bids will reflect those terms.

2 votes

#3.6 - Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:03 PM EDT

luckydog

Sure you can Jay. Happens all the time in business and government. They are entitled to no special protection from government mandates, regulations nor are they guaranteed profits and the last time I heard they set their own rates. It's fair as long as it is applied equally to all cell phone companies.

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Cell towers must have battery back-up says FCC. Companies say No

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Cell towers must have battery back-up says FCC. Companies say No

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